Storie: 0:16

Welcome back to Market it with Atma, where we share the tips, tools and strategies to help your business be successful. I'm your host, dori, and today we have on the show a guest that has over 40 years of experience in the entrepreneurial world. Please welcome to the show, mr Rich Ashton. Welcome, rich.

Rich: 0:34

Thank you.

Storie: 0:34

Glad to be here. So I'd like to start us all off with how I do with every show is tell us who you are and what you do, because you have an extensive background in growing businesses. Is that correct?

Rich: 0:48

I do, and a total of about 55 years, as a matter of fact 55 years I began in the real estate business in the early 70s and I stayed in the real estate business for several years, sold out, decided that I wanted to run an operating company and after selling my interest back to a fabulous company Trammell Crow Company was where I worked I began looking for an operating company. I did a little bit more real estate development, I started a rental company and then I found the company that I still own in 1988. Wow.

Rich: 1:25

The company was about to go bankrupt. I bought it with the idea of turning it around. It took longer than I thought, but we successfully turned it around and I still own that company today.

Storie: 1:36

Wow, that's an incredible story. I mean, I'm sure there's caveats to all of those little golden nuggets you gave us just now, but tell us about how you went from blogs, writing blogs, to writing your own book good question.

Rich: 1:54

I began writing a blog as part of a training program within our company, trying to elevate people who are good employees into excellent leaders. Okay, all of us come with limitations placed on us by our life experiences, and so every one of these people, including myself, began with a ceiling, and my job is to raise them through that ceiling into something they never thought they could they could become. We're a blue collar company and so all of our people come in from the field. They're put in leadership positions without proper training to become leaders. I found in designing the training program that by writing a blog every other week, they had something to talk about that was current and we forced them to talk about it as a group. We had eight people in our leadership training program.

Rich: 2:53

We forced them once a week to talk about the blog openly and an interesting thing happened. They began printing out the blogs after I sent them and put them in binders and kept them on their desk, and they used the blogs as a reference for problems that they were facing. And it caused me after two years and I had just about run out of ammunition, frankly, I turned them loose and said I'm not writing these blogs anymore. And then one weekend at home, I read through the series of blogs and I had more than 50 written at that point, wow. And I said you know what? This is great business, small business, fodder. And I think I'm going to go ahead and publish a book containing these blogs.

Rich: 3:39

So I didn't sit down to write a book. I wrote the blogs and they became a book.

Storie: 3:43

That is an incredible story. So can you tell me kind of what inspired? Have you always been a writer?

Rich: 3:49

I have, I have Okay.

Storie: 3:51

Okay, and and writing. When you say you were writing. Um, in what context were the blogs? Are they? How to blogs?

Rich: 4:00

They are very specific to specific problems, so I wrote them in no particular order. They all dealt with something that we were facing at the time, and then, when I converted them into book form, I went back and reorganized them, I took some of them out and I wound up with a total of 35 separate blogs.

Storie: 4:19

Wow Now. So at what point did you see a difference from the start of writing blogs and quote unquote, forcing them to engage and read them to actual growth in yourselves and your bottom line?

Rich: 4:37

I would guess it took about six months before we could actually see growth. But, as I said earlier, we started with eight people in the program. At the end of two and a half years we have three who have had spectacular growth. We've had three who have had good, solid growth. Wow. One is no longer with our company and one is struggling to decide if he wants to be a leader or not. Right, and so that's a. You know, that's a 75 80 success rate. Um, I'll take that every time no kidding.

Storie: 5:15

And to only have one that no longer works with the company, that's incredible.

Rich: 5:19

Your retention rate must be wonderful we have a very special culture that we have worked hard to cultivate, and once people who are quality come to work for us, they tend to stay, and our industry is known for lots and lots of turnover, so it's uncommon that we have as many longer term employees as we do?

Storie: 5:38

Absolutely. It's something I definitely look for when I go to a company to hire them for something is the longevity of their staff. It's so important. The culture and I go to a company to hire them for something is the longevity of their staff. It's so important. The culture and I feel like a lot of corporate America now is taking on that culture, whether it be small business, midsize or larger, it's not so much come to work, work, work, like the environment and the people have to grow right.

Rich: 6:00

I agree there's a lot more attention paid to that than there used to be.

Storie: 6:03

Right, and so what you've done is you're kind of on the very cutting edge of all of that. You created it before people knew that we needed these blogs. Quote unquote.

Rich: 6:13

Well, I was very lucky in that the first company I worked for had a fabulous culture and a great work ethic, and so I learned a lot from that that I have carried through in everything else that I've done.

Storie: 6:26

Wow, and so how? As a business owner, I know you said you forced them to engage in the blogs, but how did you go about presenting this to your staff? Was it received well? Was it not Like what do these business owners and our listeners do that either don't have a staff and need to develop one, or that have a staff and they get the pushback?

Rich: 6:50

That's a complicated question.

Storie: 6:51

I'm sure it is Just the CliffsNotes version, please.

Rich: 6:54

I think the first answer is is that one of the things that is missing in the business world, at a certain level anyway, is intellectual curiosity? When I began writing the blogs, they were enjoyed and they were filed away, and because we had to force the people to start discussing them, they didn't. They didn't understand. I guess that when you move into a leadership role, you're not just holding yourself accountable, you're holding other people accountable, and we watched the team begin to hold themselves accountable each other accountable.

Rich: 7:34

And so they would say that's a great idea, but I don't think that's what we're supposed to be doing. And Rich wrote a blog about that two weeks ago. Let's pull that out and they would read through it again together and they'd go. You know what. That's right. But had we not forced them into an open discussion of the blogs, I don't think they would have gotten to the same point. I know they wouldn't have.

Storie: 8:00

Absolutely, I mean, and it no matter what industry you're in, right.

Rich: 8:03

Correct.

Storie: 8:04

If you put your staff together and they want to communicate about solving a problem. It's a team culture. It is what you want, and now you need to be able to. I would say and please correct me if I'm wrong as a business owner, you need to be able to spot those leaders that don't know their leaders yet.

Rich: 8:21

That's exactly right, okay. And sometimes you spot people you think are going to develop into leaders and they don't.

Storie: 8:27

Yeah, plenty of times, right. I mean I tell my kids all the time you can't learn unless you make mistakes Correct, and we even make them today. I make one at least a day, right. But I learned from them.

Rich: 8:38

If you're down to one a day, you're doing pretty well.

Storie: 8:40

Yeah, at least in my eyes, right. So you're in the service industry and you kind of built or started creating this book that wasn't supposed to be a book out of the service industry, is that right?

Rich: 8:52

well, it's correct. My but a lot of my examples are from there. Some are from other people, some are from our industry, but it's it's really observations of business through the last 55 years.

Storie: 9:07

Wow, and you say our, would you do? You have partners, mentors?

Rich: 9:13

Oh, lots of mentors and and there's a. There's a chapter in the book called WWJD where I talk about the influence of mentors.

Rich: 9:21

And I start with my wife. My wife is totally different from me. She's strong in all the areas. I am not, and she's a very gracious lady and in observing her she makes. She starts relationships within the first minutes of meeting people and she holds on to those relationships, and that's that's something I'm a lot better at now than I used to be, but when we met 44 years ago I didn't have that skill.

Rich: 9:51

And so I just sat back and said that's probably a skill I ought to develop, and I observed and I'm still observing all these years later. I've done that with lots of people in my life. Entrepreneurs tend to run in packs, and so I have lots of entrepreneurial friends, many of whom have been very successful, and I have gotten to pick something from this one and something from that one, but I've got a whole long list of mentors in my life.

Storie: 10:18

Wow. So would you say that business owners like yourself that are seasoned, have been in different industries or have had their business for over five years? Would you say that having mentors, um, that are in or out of the industry are pivotal in your growth?

Rich: 10:33

I don't know how you would would grow without that right. If you're not curious about what's out there, I, I don't. I, I just don't know how you grow.

Storie: 10:44

Well, I mean to that point. I've seen a lot of people, or perceived a lot of people in different industries that are owners to, to be a little what I would say arrogant right, they don't have time for you. They're always running around real, real busy and everything like that. So how do you get them to this point?

Rich: 11:03

Um, I think I probably was accused of being arrogant. Maybe I'm still arrogant, but I was far more arrogant at 40 than I am now, and that came through the observation process. In fact, I say in the book that around my early 40s, my career stagnated and I began looking around for why that was, and I discovered that arrogance was part of it and my style of motivating people was not working as well as the style that I observed in others, and so I made a change.

Storie: 11:39

See, and that's pivotal, because it's hard to make changes, especially in your business, accepting that you're not right. But with this ever-changing world we live in now, with digital I mean, it's always changing and it's uncomfortable. So how do business owners balance that change and marketing and production and all of those different variables?

Rich: 12:07

those different variables. There's a book that we studied in our company called Start With why. That lets you, or helps you, identify why you're in this business in the first place, and once you get your why together, then every decision that you make in your business revolves around that why make in your business revolves around that why, and our why is providing exceptional service through empowerment and support of above average employees. So we run every decision in our company through the filter of our why and I think that really has helped us stay grounded and focused and aimed in the right direction.

Storie: 12:43

Wow. So you're saying, just so I'm clear you really talk with your whole staff, the full breadth of your company, about decisions that are being made.

Rich: 12:55

We talk with the leadership team and the leadership team takes input where it's appropriate. You know, a truly collaborative style of leadership leads to pretty average outcomes. A true leader takes input from the people who can give good quality input not necessarily agree, but give good quality input and then makes a decision based on that input.

Storie: 13:20

I'd have to agree with that. In my experience in life so far, all the true leaders that I've truly felt put me where I needed to be when I didn't know it, led by example. They really had a gift to be able to see the leadership in their staff, which I think that you have. And now you're helping with this book for business owners. What type of business owner do you think this book would benefit the most?

Rich: 13:47

So small business owners are running with their hair on fire the vast majority of the time. The last thing they have to do have time to do is train, and so this book is a shortcut to training your employees. Actually, I mentioned earlier that our employees used it as a desktop reference and still do so I have. I have a book called extreme ownership that I read many years ago and it's a great book on leadership. That's one of my desktop books. Really.

Rich: 14:16

This is also, and so if if we are trying to make a decision or we're facing a difficult problem with an employee trying to make a decision, or we're facing a difficult problem with an employee we'll turn to chapter 21 or chapter 28 and read through it, and it's another way of staying grounded and focused.

Storie: 14:33

That is a wonderful just a team development and personal development tool that you're helping your team to learn. Are you requiring that your team have personal development skills or tasks when they leave?

Rich: 14:49

We required it originally. We don't have to require it now, right? They're self-motivated toward that. Ceiling is gone, the old ceilings are gone, they're looking for new ceilings now to break through.

Storie: 15:01

Wow, it's almost like you open their eyes to all of the different possibilities that they could.

Rich: 15:05

I think that's well stated. I think that's exactly what we did.

Storie: 15:07

That's wonderful. So what do you? Can you tell me I know you have a lot of stories, but a pivotal experience, either with a client purchasing a business, any anything within your breadth of understanding that happened with you, that you really learned from and that you can give some kind of tips or thought to our business owners that are listening?

Rich: 15:32

one of the chapters in the book is called you don't know what you don't know. That was a big one for me. My in my first company, or the first company I worked for. I worked worked for a 23-year-old MBA, harvard MBA, whose undergraduate was at MIT Wow.

Rich: 15:53

Absolutely brilliant young guy and he took me aside early on and he said you don't really know much about business. And he said I want you to read five periodicals each week business periodicals plus the Wall Street Journal. And he said you're going to be surprised in a short time how far your knowledge of business grows. That was very pivotal, pivotal. Pivotal for me, and it is a program that I continue to this day wow.

Storie: 16:28

So it was pivotal for you because you took the advice one and started practicing it correct, right. So was that from one of your mentors that you say um, you kind of kept close within your he was.

Rich: 16:42

he was a mentor at the time. I don't have that relationship any longer. I we just grew apart. Um, he is not one that is mentioned on my list of mentors, but he clearly was at that point.

Storie: 16:52

Yes, so as a business owner can I touch on that for a second Do you grow out of your mentors and then, at that point, where do you go from there?

Rich: 17:01

I have probably grown out of some, but I'm I'm fortunate to know people who have far more bandwidth than I have. Right. And I will never outgrow them.

Storie: 17:14

Oh, wow, okay, so there's always a person that is at least a level, level two above you, an experience or knowledge base maybe, of that particular?

Rich: 17:26

Yeah, life experience. But I also in watching my grandson play baseball. I watch coaches and I learn both good and bad from the way coaches interact with players and with umpires and also if you're an observer of life, I think you find mentors lots of places.

Storie: 17:44

Is it hard to not try and point those things out or correct those things when you're not in your zone each day, when you're out in the world?

Rich: 17:52

It was as a parent, it is not as a grandparent. You know, it's really easy to be a grandparent is not as a grandparent.

Storie: 18:01

You know, it's really easy to be a grandparent. You just really have to worry about making sure they're.

Rich: 18:04

They're good, right? You just gotta love them. That's all you gotta do.

Storie: 18:06

Man, it seems like you've you've hit a point in life. You're really enjoying it, and it seems like your book speaks for itself for you to be able to have the availability to be at your grandkids games and to come on. The podcast shows your process seems to be working.

Rich: 18:21

It has worked for me, quite by accident, I think, most of the time, I think because I got such a great start and enjoyed business from the very start, that I have enjoyed my business life all along the way and I'm still enjoying it today. And this is I'm at a transitional point and I'm still enjoying it today. And this is I'm at. I'm at a transitional point and and I'm looking forward to the rest of it.

Storie: 18:41

That is exciting. So what is on the horizon for you?

Rich: 18:44

Oh, I'll be. I'll be retired fairly soon. I don't know exactly what that means for the transition of the business, but I am looking for opportunities. I'm going to do some business, some real estate business, with my two sons I. I would love to think that this book will lead to some opportunities for training and speaking. As a consultant, and so those are all things that are available out there. I think I just I have to figure out what the best avenue is, and I have to find people who are interested in listening to me.

Storie: 19:16

Absolutely. So to that point on finding people that are interested in listening to me. Absolutely, I mean so to that point on finding people that are listening to you. How, as a thought leader, do you find, do you attribute to your friends that own other businesses, do you feel like you really help their business in any industry with these steps, or do you feel like it's really service industry specific?

Rich: 19:41

Well, I'll answer that by saying my youngest son called me when he was halfway through reading the book and he said dad, this book is about life, this isn't about the HVAC business, and so I hope that's the answer. It doesn't apply to every business and it certainly does not apply to large businesses. You simply can't apply these principles with huge teams.

Storie: 20:02

So what would you consider to be large? You know?

Rich: 20:05

I would say if you had a team not necessarily a company, but a team within a company of 100 people, these principles are probably not applicable, and I'll tell you why. And I'll tell you why. So if you have a 10 person team and you have 10% acting up and acting badly, it's pretty easy to counsel one person and maybe replace one person.

Rich: 20:26

But if you have a hundred person team using the same 10%, you have 10 people and those 10 people are impacting 20 people and I just think it's really, really difficult to get the buy-in from 100 people. It's much more difficult than getting the buy-in from a smaller group.

Storie: 20:44

Absolutely. I mean natural personality differences, things like that. I mean you can try and understand a smaller group, right yeah?

Rich: 20:53

And people go negative very quickly and negativity spreads and negativity breeds more negativity and in a larger group it's just really difficult to get your hand on that.

Storie: 21:06

Around it, around that situation. Negativity in any business is crippling right. So how because everyone's not going to like everybody Do you ever touch on in this book how you could create that harmony in your team?

Rich: 21:25

yes and no. I, I don't. I don't think we specifically talk about creating harmony. We talk about building accountability in and about being a proactive manager. So when you identify a problem, you take care of the problem.

Rich: 21:38

And there's a line from the extreme ownership book called it's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate, and, as a manager, if you allow a situation to fester, it will never get better, and you'll, all of a sudden, instead of having one problem person, you'll have three, and so that's not a way to create harmony. It is a way to eliminate problems Wow, and maybe by default, maybe you create harmony. It is a way to eliminate problems Wow, and maybe by default.

Storie: 22:02

Maybe you create harmony by doing it Unconsciously right With a different perspective on it. That's great advice, because I mean just seeing it each day and how it manifested in your business. It's very, very kind of you to want to give this knowledge to other business owners. Was that your goal when you realized you know what?

Rich: 22:26

I don't know that. It's kindness. I love seeing people succeed and I love being a part of their success. One of my favorite stories is a guy who joined us at our entry-level position. He was driving a parked truck and he had no interest in a career. He was, in fact. His goal was to work for six months, earn enough money to go back to Mexico, he told me that many years later, he's still here, 19 years later.

Rich: 22:56

He's a part of our leadership team, and when I mentioned that there were three spectacular successes, he's one of them.

Storie: 23:02

Wow.

Rich: 23:03

And, and so that's the, that's the fun for me.

Storie: 23:05

That is incredible. To be able to say that is incredible. If you'd like to shout out the the air, his name, you're more than welcome to.

Rich: 23:14

If not, he knows who he is.

Storie: 23:16

He knows who he is. And I think sometimes I mean with the majority of entrepreneurs is it really intentional to develop a team and to start your own business, or is it more? Can you put a team together is how you become an entrepreneur.

Rich: 23:36

Well, I think starting your own business is very intentional, but I don't think most people think about putting the ultimate team together and, as I said earlier, you don't have time to spend time on training. We're doing this after you know 30 plus years in this business and because I'm working through a general manager, I have time to do things like this. It's not like it was 20 years ago where my day was 100% filled. If I hadn't had that luxury, we could never have done this. So that's why the book is so valuable, because it'll it's. Somebody else already did the work for you and I. I have heard from my entrepreneurial friends who have read the book that they agree like with everything and we experienced it. So it's a roadmap for success with people. That isn't really available, because it's very hard to find leadership information for small businesses.

Storie: 24:39

It is, I would say, invaluable information as well, what you've put together.

Rich: 24:44

It's egotistical to say that, but I think so.

Storie: 24:46

Well, I mean, you can't know what's going to happen unless you've experienced something like it, right? I mean, that's why we have mentors, that's why we have parents to teach us what we've already been through.

Rich: 24:56

It sure makes it a lot easier.

Storie: 24:59

Isn't it nice. But when you don't have those, having a book like this is really, really something that I wish I had in the beginning of my career and my parents had in the beginning. They're entrepreneurs either way. They were figuring it out duct tape and butter the whole way, but this is something that could really change your business, would you say.

Rich: 25:19

I think so.

Storie: 25:20

Okay, I think so now um is reading this book, the only thing that's going to change someone's business. So if somebody's struggling right now and they have that, that toxic environment in their production, whether it be with their, their sales staff, what is a quick, a couple quick tips that you can give them to at least stop the chaos from happening, or that you feel would help.

Rich: 25:46

Be transparent, be honest and do what you say you're going to do. If you say you're going to deal with a problem, deal with a problem and then come back to the people who were affected and say I told you I was going to deal with it, I dealt with it, and if you still have the problem, I need to know. But as long as people know that you're authentic and you're going to do what you say you're going to do and you're going to follow through, they'll follow that kind of leader.

Storie: 26:16

Wow. So what if you have a leader that's not authentic? Um, as a C-suite executive in many different industries, how do you know when, when, when to pivot, when you're not growing anymore with, with the rest of your C-suite?

Rich: 26:37

That's a particular weakness of mine. I like people, I'm loyal to people and I'm pretty optimistic about people, and I would say that the mistake I have made most often is in trying to rehab people who are not rehabable.

Rich: 26:53

And when you say rehab do you kind of mean what I think of that is investing too much time that could have been focused on other things and one of the terms I've used in the book is that when you have a negative employee or an employee who's not up to speed, not only are they not producing at the proper level, but they're occupying a spot that could be occupied by a superstar. That could be occupied by a superstar. So the longer you allow that employee to remain in the organization, the more you have retarded the organization from the growth that a superstar could provide.

Storie: 27:28

Absolutely Not only deterred the superstar, but you're also planning. It's just like apples rotten in a bag, right, correct? You're just slowly poisoning everyone in the environment, would you say so? Thank you for those tips, because I agree with you on those things being transparent, and it's kind of like kids for people that don't have kids. If you don't follow through with your threat, they will walk all over you.

Rich: 27:53

Correct If you agree with that it really is to.

Storie: 27:59

to frame it in a different way, just like raising children If you don't follow through, life's going to run all over you.

Rich: 28:07

The. The parallels between parenting and running a small business are uncanny.

Storie: 28:11

So similar, especially in the service industry. So I recently worked in the service industry a couple of years ago, just for a change of pace and, oh my goodness, the the emotional chaos that happens within that industry. It was surprising to me and and just how important process and team development truly have to be when you're in a very fast pace. Fire drill kind of mentality would you say.

Rich: 28:37

I would.

Storie: 28:38

So what industry do you feel was the easiest for you to build and grow?

Rich: 28:45

I've never been asked that question.

Storie: 28:47

Oh, yes, I got a good one.

Rich: 28:48

I don't know that any of them were easier. I think the same principles apply in the businesses that I have chosen to be in. I was in the used office furniture business for a while. I know it sounds odd. It was one of the most fun business concepts I've ever pursued, but I couldn't find anybody to run the business and shut it down after a while. So that's the opposite of what you asked me. That wasn't the most fun. That was. It was the most fun business to be in in. It was the least fun because I failed at it you know what?

Storie: 29:22

you don't mention that in the beginning. How many times you failed at it, right? So do you think that if you hadn't failed at these other businesses, you would never have have grown this business the way you had?

Rich: 29:34

um, yeah, I mean, we all learn from our failures and I'm not sure you learn more. Learn more from your failures, but you better learn something from them.

Storie: 29:42

Right, If you don't, I mean you shouldn't be a business owner.

Rich: 29:45

Correct, you're going to do it again.

Storie: 29:46

Again and again. So we kind of touched on over time how the digital world has changed when it comes to business. How do you keep up with the digital age and the advertising and the marketing, because it's changed a lot since you started in 88, right?

Rich: 30:03

Oh, it's changed tremendously and changes every single day. I would say that I don't have, at this age I don't have the grasp on technology that I would love to have. Fortunately, our general manager does, and so he kind of leads that part of the organization. I handle the marketing, he handles the details on the marketing, and that's good, because at this age I simply can't grasp as much about technology. I can appreciate it and I'm just fascinated with all the possibilities of AI, and we are right now incorporating some AI into our business. Wow.

Rich: 30:41

But if I sat down and tried to explain AI to you, I'd I'd I'd be lost.

Storie: 30:47

But you see the benefit right. And that's wonderful, because if you don't, if you don't come with the change, like when the internet was created and everyone started chatting, there was so much resistance and I feel like there was a lot of resistance with AI coming in, but you get out of it what you put into it and any growth of a company, right I mean. So if you're going to try it, try it 100%, would you say that that's very important for a leadership team to do in a business.

Rich: 31:16

I think it goes back to that intellectual curiosity. You need to learn everything there is that you can understand and know about it and make an informed decision. I don't. I'm sure there are things with AI that I don't want a part of our business. For instance, I get solicitations all the time from companies who want to interact with our customers directly with AI. Well, we're a personal services company and we pride ourselves on the fact that you talk to real people. It's hard for me to imagine that AI can do that better. They can do it faster, they can do it cheaper. I don't think they can do it better and if we stay true to our core mission of providing exceptional customer service, I doubt seriously that AI can do that as well as we can do it.

Storie: 32:05

I agree with you on that. Would you say that any business that doesn't see the benefit in AI will not do as well as others in your opinion?

Rich: 32:19

I'm not sure I can say that. I think you have to be open to it and whatever comes after AI, you have to be open to that too. But it goes back to understand what it does, understand how it conflicts with what you're about and if there are conflicts, rule those out. But if there are opportunities, take advantage of them.

Storie: 32:39

I would definitely have to agree with that, but I feel like these businesses that give that personal touch, there's going to be a whole area of people that are really hesitant and push back on the AI, which I completely understand, because I hate talking to AI when I go through a drive-thru. But I mean, how, how successful do you see moms and pops that give that personal touch being in comparison to the, to the companies that are using it? Because in my opinion my opinion and I haven't been in any industry near as long as you have, but in my opinion I feel like that is going to increase the value of the mom and pop businesses that want to give that personal hand on hand.

Rich: 33:22

I'd like to believe that, because we fall more in the category of a mom and pop, but I don't think a mom and pop can ever reach the scale that they might like to without employing some of those digital methodologies.

Storie: 33:39

And that was going to be my next question is do you feel like that's necessary?

Rich: 33:43

It's necessary and you have to decide who you want to be. We have always said that we didn't necessarily need to be the largest, but we needed to be the best, and the best for us is in providing exceptional customer service. Anything that we do that diminishes the level of our service in the interest of growth is the wrong thing for us to do.

Storie: 34:04

Wow, can you give me an example of that, because I can see the passion in you, but an example of one of the situations that caused this thought process and methodology.

Rich: 34:13

Well, I think we just go back to interacting with AI as opposed to interacting with people. We insist that our people be involved in all communication and I just I don't want to take that away from our customers, and certainly those who have been with us a long time would be offended by it. But I don't know that we would attract as many new long-term customers by taking shortcuts like AI as we can, growing up maybe a little bit more slowly, but on a very solid path, by doing it the way we're doing it.

Storie: 34:50

Well understanding your buyer personas. Right Understanding your clientele is very important, and if you just said that, a lot of our clients wouldn't appreciate that or the transition, I think that's a big part of owning a business is understanding not what you like or what you think will work, but what your current buying personas are buying.

Rich: 35:14

Would you agree? Well, a hundred percent. And you have to know who you are and you have to know who your market is. We don't choose to be all things to all people, but we choose to be really, really good with the people. That kind of fit the profile of who we're trying to sell to.

Storie: 35:30

Which is wonderful, so what what I know? I've already asked that kind of fit the profile of who we're trying to sell to, which is wonderful, so what what I know? I've already asked you kind of what advice would you give to a business owner immediately, but what is for other business owners listening? What's the very first step you'd recommend in creating a better team of leadership?

Rich: 35:52

Well, I'd certainly want them to read my book.

Storie: 35:54

Obviously, I'm about to stop it and take a look at it over there.

Rich: 36:01

I think the other thing I would say is read. Start with why, Because I think you have to know who you are when we read the book together. Start With why. We saw ourselves in it, so we accidentally happened into the formula that they talk about. We didn't have to change anything, we just simply refined our thinking a little bit. But I don't think you can start a business today without having a real clear sense of who you are and where you're going.

Storie: 36:36

That's wonderful advice. Maybe I need to take a look at who I am right, but for any business owner small, large in between you have to reevaluate yourself at periodic points. All the time you have to reevaluate yourself at periodic points All the time, would you say more often than a leadership staff member, would I mean you really kind of got to step back, at least once a year, once a month, I would say and really look at what you're doing.

Rich: 37:02

A business like ours is built on transactions.

Storie: 37:12

And I truly think you have to evaluate every transaction. Live by the walk-in, die by the walk-in Is that kind of a mentality that you've used in the service industry?

Rich: 37:20

I'm not familiar with that.

Storie: 37:21

The live by the walk-in, die by the walk-in. So you, if you only are showing yourself to the people that are walking in the door, your clients that are walking in the door, you're not creating a relationship, right? I mean you've got to have that brand awareness, that trust. So to that point, would you say, brand awareness and marketing is something that your company has always done throughout the years and that's helped your trust.

Rich: 37:46

I think we have. We talk a little bit about price, but it's never foremost in our advertising. We're not a discounter, we're a company that provides value and we need our customers to understand that value is not cheap. We're not the most expensive, but we're very comfortable staying above the midpoint on price because it costs money to provide value, and we have. We've stayed true to that the entire time that I've been there.

Storie: 38:16

Staying true to that vision and mission statement. I think is where it is, because 97% of businesses don't make it past two years is what I. The last stat I read You've been in business for 40 years. I read you've been in business for 40 years. At what point over the hump? Because over two years it's very hard for businesses. At what point do you really feel like you've got it running? At what year milestone did you feel like you had it running smooth? Help us.

Rich: 38:44

Well, I've had that thought several times and then lost it, interesting it. Just, it never stops. The innovation never stops, the commitment to excellence never stops. The, the reevaluation of how every interaction went, should never stop. And so you know, the the the economy changes, the government makes, makes rules that change your industry. So you know, you've never made it, in my opinion.

Storie: 39:12

You've never made it if you don't kind of keep up with.

Rich: 39:16

You've never made it regardless. I mean tomorrow. You know we were rocking along in pretty good shape until COVID came. And then, we lost 20% of our business that year. So I don't know. I don't know what's around the corner. I just know that if we stay true to our mission, we have a much better chance of survival than if we don't.

Storie: 39:38

Wow, well, I I would really love to have you back on the show at a later date and maybe we could start like a series of episodes with you for this thought leadership, because podcasts are everything right now. Right, and we want to. We want to be diverse in the culture and the age range of people we're talking to, because someone like you I would have loved to have had when I was 20. So let me help you with that marketing aspect of it, and if our viewers see all the value that I see in you, I would really really highly suggest all of our viewers to go and buy the book. Where can they buy it?

Rich: 40:09

It's online at Amazon and Barnes Noble right now.

Storie: 40:12

Awesome, and is there any other way that they can contact you for thought leadership, for coaching? Speaking, how would they reach you?

Rich: 40:18

The website for the book is growingyourownnet. Okay, and my email is rich at growingyourownnet.

Storie: 40:26

And I will paste it in the bottom of the comments on the episode once we post it. But in the meantime, thank you so much for all the thoughts and the encouragement from someone who's actually been through and walked through all the hurdles of life. It's very kind what you've done Well thank you.

Rich: 40:47

It's a fun conversation to have. I look forward to having you again, awesome you've done.

Storie: 40:50

It's a fun conversation to have. I look forward to having him again. Awesome To our listeners out there. If you know an entrepreneur who's ready to really take hold of their business, have them. Give me a call and I'll connect you with Rich. And until next time, come see us again on Marketing with Emma. Thank you.