SPEAKER_00: 0:18

Welcome to the Atma Podcast, where we give you the tips, tools, and strategies you need to be successful to build, launch, grow, and scale your business. My name is Brian Acosta and I am the CEO and co-founder of Advent Trinity Marketing Agency, aka Atma, and I'll be your host today. Today we have a very special guest joining us. His name is Clifton Norwine, who is a managing partner at Inquest Advisory Capital Partners. Clifton Norwine is a strategic business leader, entrepreneur, and capital advisor with over 30 years of experience across real estate, media, corporate enterprise, and municipal leadership. He has founded and exited multiple companies, advised Fortune 500 CEOs, led high-stakes communications, and today oversees more than 200 million in multifamily assets. He's an Emmy award-winning producer, a leadership tactician, and a seasoned investor who brings both heart and discipline to the world of real estate syndication. Clifton, welcome to the show. But before we begin the show, let's say thank you to our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by NouveauxDesk Co-Working, the home of Arlington's most accessible production-ready podcast studio. Whether you're launching your first show or leveling up your content game, Nouveau Desk gives you a professional studio environment where you can walk in, hit record, and create. But NouveauDesk is more than just a podcast room. It's fully equipped business hub with private offices, conference rooms, and workshop and event spaces designed to help you host, collaborate, and grow. If you're ready to elevate your brand, your business, or your voice, book your next recording or your next tour at nuvodesk.com. Create here, work here, build here. Today's episode is brought to you by Nuvio, the all-in-one business platform designed to help you build, manage, and scale with confidence. With Nuvio, you can build your own website in minutes, manage all of your leads and customers through a powerful CRM. And if you're in the restaurant industry, you can run your entire operations using Nuvio's modern point of sale system. Whether you're a startup, a service provider, or a full-scale restaurant, Nuvio gives you everything you need in one place. Simple, connected, and built to grow with you. Discover why entrepreneurs are switching to Nuvio. Visit Nuvio.com and run your entire business on one platform. Well, welcome back, everybody. Like I said, we have Clifton Norwin here with us, and he is an awesome person. Uh when I was doing uh research on you and did your bio, man, you have such a uh I mean amazing biography and you've done a lot. So I'm gonna have you introduce yourself, Clifton, uh tell us a little bit about yourself from you and not from you know what I wrote for you.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

All right. Well, uh yeah, I've I've uh been around uh for a while. I'm 150 years old, so I've done a lot of stuff, you know. Uh but uh it's been a long and storied career. I've always been entrepreneurial minded. So uh as soon as I got out of the corporate world, I just you know, the brain just started going crazy. What can I do to generate income? And uh that led me down several different paths, uh creatively, uh entrepreneurially, you know. So I tried a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_00: 3:32

Awesome, awesome. Well, man, we're glad to have you on this podcast. You know, um when I when we first talked and chatted, like I said, this podcast, we're trying to give back to the business community uh and and just you know educate on wisdom, right, and lifetime stories of truly what it looks like to build, launch, grow, and scale. And you know, we we use build launch grow scale here at our marketing firm. Uh we teach people how to build assets, launch the campaigns, grow and nurture relationships and scale. Uh but build launch grow scale can be a little you know different in in all aspects. And and so we want to talk about what build means to you. And and when I was reading it, you know, uh you you retired and then you you just went back and so tell me a little bit about what you know what that looked like. You you you were like, hey, you know what? I'm gonna just gonna get out of retirement.

SPEAKER_01: 4:21

Right. Yeah. So um long story short, after 20 years in the corporate world, uh the last 10 years with American Airlines, uh just to give you a background, my father was very corporate-minded. He was a CEO of a company, and he always told me, get a good education, get a good job, everything will be okay. So that's the mantra that I followed. You know, I I went to college, I I I did great, I graduated, came out, got that uh first career job, moved on, accelerated, moved up. Uh executive position at American Airlines. Um, I've got the pension, I've got the stock options, I've got the amazing benefits. I I, you know, I'm climbing the corporate ladder, I'm working with the C-suite executives. I'm I'm you know, I'm where I'm supposed to be. I think I've got it made. I'm gonna retire from this and everything is gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 5:11

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:13

So, you know, um job critical function, they kept me on with American for about seven more years after 9-11. And during that time, the stock options became worthless, the pension went away, the benefits were reduced, I became a regular employee. And so I found a way to exit that and realized that I can do what I was doing for American on my own and probably be better compensated for that. So uh I planned and scheduled to leave American Airlines. They didn't want me to leave. They asked me to hire and train my replacement, which I did. But I left American and I started my own production company, which eventually evolved into an ad agency here in Dallas, did really well. Some of my clients were uh uh free-to-late, PepsiCo, fantastic client, loved working with them. Uh McAfee, Interstate Batteries. Just, I mean, I had some Fortune 500 clients that kept me in really good business. Then I got in with the Dallas Mavericks and started doing a lot of sports stuff. And that kind of led to working with the Rangers, etc. Anyway, uh my business partner at the time bought me out, so I sold my company to him. Bingo, first company sold, had a nice chunk of cash. I'm like, I can retire on this, I can just invest this and sit back. So there I am at home, retired, twiddling the thumbs, watching reruns of I Love Lucy or whatever. And my wife walks in one day and she says, No. This doesn't work. Yeah. So uh I started brainstorming what can I do to really reinvigorate my career. And uh COVID happened. And during COVID, my wife and I sat and brainstormed, and she's been in real estate for 35 years in the management side, and now she owns and operates her own management company, which is fantastic. And uh but during COVID, I asked her what are investors looking for. She said investors need to understand their product. They need to understand what they're getting into because a lot of investors just buy, they get into trouble financially, then they're out and they lose money. So we created a due diligence company, my my third company. And uh so the idea was to do the proper due diligence for investors pre-LOI, letter of intent, and post-LOI, so that they could understand and make changes to their contracts, to their lender uh options, to, you know, their underwriting everything and make sure they get into a product that they can profit from. So that was going really, really well. And then a couple of years after COVID, we started to realize that a lot of investors are just jumping in and they don't want to spend the money on due diligence. And so we kind of shifted. And I started becoming more of the investor rather than the pre-investment guy. Yeah. And that that's when things really kind of changed for me.

SPEAKER_00: 8:11

You know, it's funny you say that because uh what you're saying is very similar. Even in real estate, in business in general, yeah, you said that realtors are, you know, they buy product buy products that they don't really understand. And so, you know, it's funny because when when we're in business and when we're building out our business, you know, to understand your product and to be able to explain your product uh and the problems that it solves is such a big problem uh in in business in general, right? Uh and that's why b businesses they have a struggle uh with their marketing. They're they're running all tons of ads, but if that message isn't built properly, right, then it becomes a serious issue. Um and so it sounds like you have a lot of wisdom because the next question is you know, things don't always go out as planned. And uh, you know, it's funny we see we we start laughing together because I also I too have had my share affair of failures, right? Um but in the in the perfect world there won't be failures. But I think that um when you're in business, you need you need to have that sense of uh perseverance, right? And so you you took a uh$300,000 loss uh early on. Uh most people in that position would have said, Hey, I'm done. I quit. So walk me through what happened there.

SPEAKER_01: 9:27

Man, oh man, thanks for bringing up that uh painful memory. Um yeah, imagine this. Uh you're a young investor, you have an opportunity in South Beach, Miami to pick up a four and a half million dollar property, and you can get in for literally nothing. Uh$300,000. And uh I jumped on it. Excitement overtook the understanding. Um, I got down to Miami and found this incredible 1928 uh mini mansion, just a beautiful home, lush tropical surroundings, uh amazing pool with a deck all around it, and the back a four-unit apartment building. Absolutely just, I mean, think of the most opulent Miami that you can think of, and this is it. I got there and I'm like, I'm in. I signed the paperwork and we're done. This is a guy who spent years doing due diligence for other investors, and I didn't look at anything except the product. It was so awesome. So I fly down there for the first week to do some preliminary business work, uh, hired a property manager, got her started on the licensing. I did some painting, I painted the front door and the bar, Caribbean current blue. I mean, I'm I'm getting into this, man. This is gonna be a great Airbnb, right? This is gonna be awesome. And within three days, the property manager comes back to me and says, Well, um we can't get a license in the Art Deco district. It's illegal to have an Airbnb in the Art Deco district.

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

Oh wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 11:10

Wow, slammed a door slammed shut right before we even get started. So I'm I'm working with the municipality. I'm trying to figure out how we can, you know, you know, circumvent this thing and do a short-term rental and get this all going. So this takes me about four months. That's four months we're not making any money. Made arrangements with the owner, said, look, we we can't make any, you know, you lied to us essentially. You had this incredible pro forma, which is all BS. You you told us you were running it as an Airbnb, that's total BS. You lied to us, and you know, just he said, Okay, I'll take care of it. I'll take it, don't worry about it. And you know, as soon as you get up and running, you can start making your rental payments. So we did, we finally got things squared away, and you know, we made about$125,000 that first year. Not even a year, it was like seven, eight months. This place is renting for eighteen hundred bucks a night, uh, plus the suites, which were five, six hundred dollars a night each. We were running about you know, fifty percent occupied most months, sixty, seventy, eighty percent on busy months. And it was a great business model. Come to find out at the beginning of the second year, the owner of the property never paid a dime to the mortgage company. And when I started talking with the bank, come to find out my three hundred thousand dollars went to pay off his first year that he didn't make any mortgage payments.

SPEAKER_00: 12:35

Oh my gosh. So not only did you lose, but you lost on top of that. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 12:40

So, yeah, he was already in foreclosure. My three hundred grand got him out of trouble, and then when we got in trouble the same way he did, because we couldn't rent it, it's illegal, he no disclosure there. He was in trouble again and just continued not to make mortgage payments. So again, you know, we got kicked out of the house. Uh, we lost the 300 grand. There's no way to get it back because the bank had already sucked it up like a sponge. You know, we could sue him and go after him for the next ten years and get nothing. Waste of time.

SPEAKER_00: 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:10

And and how do you persevere? Well, you you you pick yourself back up and say, hey, look, lesson learned.

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:16

Uh gotta keep going because yeah, 300k will put most people into bankruptcy. Uh we're fortunate that we have multiple income streams, but uh, you know, I want that 300k back.

SPEAKER_00: 13:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 13:29

And it's gonna have to be through hard work and and diligence to to get it back. Yeah. And that and that that's what drove me.

SPEAKER_00: 13:36

You know, it's funny you say that because uh one of my mentors, he he constantly tells me, you know, when when you know how to lose, you lose less. Right. And so you had to make a wise decision and be like, and I can go, like you said, you could go after the guy and and but is it really worth it? Uh or could you spend your energy and efforts, you know, reproducing more, you know, more fruitful uh things for your business. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 13:58

That's the key. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

Yeah. So how did in it and so going back, we go to to real estate, but you know, how did your years in media marketing and even coaching uh volleyball prepare you for the work you do today?

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

Wow. So, you know, uh years of being in in media and marketing obviously prepared me for how to uh market myself, uh market products, talk to people, uh create a pathway or a funnel to bring people into your business. Um marketing in media is all about that. And networking, very important. Getting out and and introducing yourself, finding an avatar. We talk about avatars in real estate, and and not as in avatar of the movie, but we call our avatar our target audience, a very niche target audience. My avatar happens to be oil and gas workers, right? Uh oil and gas executives. These are guys who have lots of money, high net worth individuals. That's my avatar. So I go to the petroleum club once a month and I hobnob with these multi, multi, multi-millionaires. And when they ask, what do I do? I'm like, I can help you save taxes by uh investing in commercial real estate. What? What do you mean? What are you talking about? So, you know, I just uh stop the conversation there, direct them to my funnel, they check it out, they read it, next thing you know, they're calling me, Wait, when's your next project? Which is great. So uh but you know, being in in those environments in marketing and media teach you these things about people and about how to talk to people and how to, you know, generate revenue through bringing people into your system.

SPEAKER_00: 15:34

Yeah, everything's about relationships at the end of the yeah. Absolutely. Yes. And and some things that, you know, I think that uh a lot of people forget that when they they hire a marketing agency. We run into a lot is that um, you know, they're like, well, you know, think think of our audience as B2C, B2B, B to G. But at the end of the day, we're all H to H, right? Human to human. You know, we're we're we're dealing with humans and we're all emotional creatures, okay? Uh and we all have, you know, we have different personalities. And and the fact that you said Avatar, we we use the word persona, which is basically the same thing. Um but you have not every customer is a good customer. Correct. Right? And and so, you know, you uh I I love it when I'm I'm out networking, it's like, well, everybody's my customer. I said, no, they're not. You know, um there are certain customers you don't want.

SPEAKER_01: 16:24

I'm walking around out there asking people to drop$100,000 to a million dollars into a deal. Yeah. Not everybody can do that.

SPEAKER_00: 16:31

Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, you there's only a and not everybody's um emotionally prepared to do that as well. Like you just lost$300, you know, you had to take a$300,000 loss, you know. What would happen if if you know you you you had somebody do that, right? Are you mentally, spiritually, emotionally prepared uh to take failures? Because and I think that we do this for all businesses, right? It's not just in marketing, it's not just in real estate. It's any business, if you're going to open a business, are you prepared um for failure and to overcome failure? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01: 17:04

Absolutely. You have to be prepared for it, because it will happen.

SPEAKER_00: 17:06

Yeah. We get into the next phase, right? It's just launched. You know, so so tell us before we get into that though, for people who don't understand real estate syndication, what's the simplest way to describe what you actually do for the investor?

SPEAKER_01: 17:22

So what I do for the investor is I help investors park their money in a tax-free environment. Okay. Um essentially, you know, anybody who's got that kind of money and they have idle money that's going to be taxed sitting around, they need a place to park that. Uh so a lot of investors are looking for a way to avoid paying taxes on high net worth income and other income that they have. So we offer them a tax-free strategy, and I have a whole book about uh tax-free wealth, how to invest in real estate without paying a dime in taxes legally. Uh but uh that's generally what we do for investors, and what a syndication is, is a syndication is is a group of professionals who have experience in the field who there's two kinds of investors passive investors, which I just described, and active investors. I'm an active investor. Um I actively work the deal, I find the deal, I underwrite the deal, I you know, uh negotiate the deal, I talk with lenders, I talk with brokers, I tour the deal, I do A to A to Z. I asset manage the deal. Passive investors, they just give us the money to help us secure the loan, we take care of the property, and we just communicate with them once a month about what we're doing. And at the end of three, four, five years, once that asset has increased in value, we sell the asset, the investor makes a lot of money, transfer it back to where it came from, tax-free, if we do it correctly, and everybody's happy.

SPEAKER_00: 18:51

Everybody likes to be everybody likes tax free. I'm just saying right now. You know, well, when you start making money, you start really paying attention to what's tax-free. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 19:02

I they I have clients who they pay up upwards of uh$750,000 to a million and a half in taxes every year. And if they can park that money somewhere that's working for them and not pay taxes on it, and then they're actually gaining on that money as well, that's a bonus for everybody.

SPEAKER_00: 19:22

No, absolutely, absolutely. And so um, you know, we go into what uh you you said it before because you know, uh, but you don't you don't just want to see an investor just write a check, right? Um you want them to understand the deal. And this is so important when you're when you're launching uh you know into the market uh because at the end of the day, as an investor, right, you're catapulting your business by purchasing product, okay, and then selling, you know, either renting or selling it. And so um, you know, walk me through like why you know a little bit more in detail of why you don't just want them to write a check.

SPEAKER_01: 19:57

It's it's great when an investor comes to you and says, Hey, I got a million bucks and he scribbles out a check. That's that's fantastic. I'll never turn that down. However, an investor that has that kind of money is not just gonna scribble out a check to some unknown guy.

SPEAKER_00: 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:12

So our job as a syndication is to not just come up with a a decent deal. And and most investors, they don't care about the deal because all deals have a 20% IRR with 10% cash on cash and a 2x equity multiple. You know, these are all great numbers for investors, but there are thousands of deals out there and hundreds of syndications that are showing the same numbers to every investor out there. What the investors want is someone they trust.

SPEAKER_00: 20:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

They want to know the team, they want to know what your experience level is, they want to know who you are and what you can do for them aside from those numbers I just mentioned. So, what we do is we not just network and and talk to these people individually, but we also hold webinars where we go through sample deals and show them exactly how we approach each deal. And being a due diligence guy, man, my property tour, you know, brokers hate me because I show up with a sewer camera and a drone and you know, you know, tactical equipment, an infrared radar gun to check out the electric. And I mean, I I go through the thing with a fine-toothed comb and they're like, geez, who are you, man? Yeah, Batman, you know. But uh, you know, so I walk the investors through this process so they know what they're getting into. They know where their money's going, and they know what group is handling their money. And when they trust you, they trust the process. So getting the owners or the the uh investors to understand who the team is is probably more important than the deal. And so we definitely want to make sure they know the team.

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

That's awesome. You know, it's funny, you you say you do webinars. We also do webinars ourselves. And I think that um, you know, people think webinars and they're like, Oh man, they're just trying to sell. And really, I I honestly we use it as a kind of like an interview process. Right? And so, like, you know, you can't just hire a marketing firm. You can't just write hire anybody. You have to do your due diligence. Is this this person um actual legit? Yes. Right? And so I think a lot of people when they're hiring team members or service-based providers, they forget that. You know, they're just like because they obviously their eye is on the problem. They have a problem, which is either they're they're, you know, they have too much money and they need something to do tax-free, or they need to generate leads or do brand awareness and grow their business or you know, anything financial or or or what have you. But you have to do diligence of who's on your team. Yes. Right? Uh I always tell people is that your your network equals your net worth. You know, who's on your team? That's your network. Yes. Right? And if if they're not working, your net worth is about to go plun plunder down, right? Yep. Um and so it's funny because this leads into our next phase, which is the growth phase, which in the grow phase, you know, people think growing, they they think of, hey, um, you know, we're gonna we're gonna grow uh business, revenue is gonna grow up, you know, go up, which is what we all want. But uh for us, we see this as nurturing, as, as uh, as you know, nurturing those relationships, growing those relationships, uh, and and most importantly, being consistent. Because a lot of people are inconsistent, right? They think that it's a flyby day, you know, you're gonna make the thing the the get rich quick philosophy, right? And so you've said consistency is everything in syndication. Um so no deal flow, no business. How do you keep opportunities alive during slow seasons?

SPEAKER_01: 23:32

Wow. So yes. In real estate, essentially, especially in the multifamily uh arena, there really aren't any slow seasons. It's always busy. People gotta have a place to live. Right. Uh even in a bad economy when people are moving out of houses, where are they going? They're going to apartment complexes. Yeah. Apartment complexes tend to be recession free. They tend to be uh, you know, constantly moving, constantly growing, constantly improving in value. So, but yeah, there are slow seasons. For example, uh here we are at the end of the fourth quarter. Everybody who's not in a closed deal right now, working on lenders, are not closing anything before the end of the year. So give it up. Everybody has just kind of come to a grinding stop. Uh first quarter should pick up again because of the big, beautiful bill. Everybody wants to jump on that 100% depreciation, get in on cost segregation, and and really take some tax write-offs right at the beginning of the year. So we expect to be very, very busy at the beginning of the year. We can't be busy unless we're doing our due diligence right now and and and filling our pipeline with good deals. I've got like five or six right now. I'm going on a tour as soon as I'm done here. And there's uh four properties I'm going to look at today. So, you know, I'm filling the pipeline so we can start underwriting. I'm gonna be underwriting on Thanksgiving. So, you know, uh I'm constantly busy. And and that consistency, staying involved. You know, I've been on syndication teams where we start off hot and we get a whole pipeline of deals, you know. They say out of every hundred LOIs you write, you close maybe one deal. So, you know, you're constantly moving and working that. And I've been with teams, you you go through that process for three or four months, and then the next thing you know, that they don't communicate as much or they're just not as involved. And I'm out there just doing everything by myself, going, hey, where are you guys? As a GP team, you all need to be committed. You all need to stay involved and consistently working on developing your pipeline and making sure that you put enough out there so that you're closing deals. And uh sometimes that's hard to come by. You go through several teams, you finally find a team that works well.

SPEAKER_00: 25:40

Oh yeah, yeah. And it it yeah, true. Uh so we have horror stories of our customers or finding the right team. Yeah. You know, you have to be um not just consistent in in in sales and marketing and and business, and but you also have to be consistent in in making sure that you're always looking for that right person, that right team to help you on your journey, right? Absolutely. Um speaking of teams, speaking of people, uh how does your your leadership style, especially from years coaching athletes, influence the way you build and manage an investment team?

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

Wow, so that's that's a great question. So um, you know, at American Airlines, I was pretty much carte blanche. I I worked on my own, but I worked with multiple teams of ad agencies and people, and you you meet all kinds of different personalities and styles of of upper level management, and you learn to deal with those kind of individuals. For example, I would be on the ramp with guys throwing bags on Monday and Tuesday morning, I'd be in the CEO's office. Do you think you deal with those two people the same way? No. And there's totally different personality style, different approach. So the same with coaching. I coached uh uh high school collegiate and club volleyball players, young female athletes for 35 years. Uh my coaching style tends to be one of very intense leadership and I do a lot of yelling, you know, and while that might motivate one girl, the other girl's sitting in the corner crying. Yep. So you have to approach each individual on that team a little bit differently to get the best performance out of them. So learning to adapt your management style to the individual personalities of people you're working with is tremendous. For example, uh in my team now, there's a gentleman I work with and and he's Muslim and he's very self-conscious about being Muslim living in the United States, especially under the current climate of things. Yeah. And so I asked him one day, I said, Why are you always in a suit and tie? Everywhere we go, he goes, Because I don't want people to make assumptions about me. So every time we meet, I make sure I dress up so that he doesn't feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:56

And he's really started to take a tune to that and he really appreciates it. And now he's one of the strongest members of my team. He's really uh very aggressively approaching deals and and pushing deal pipelines and and really making sure that we're gonna be successful. And I think that's just because I treated him the way he wanted to be treated, and and I I kind of aligned myself with his style and what he does. So we went to Starbucks to meet just to brainstorm a little bit, and he shows up in a suit and tie, and I'm sitting there in a nice jacket and tie and you know boots, and he's like, Thanks, man. So I don't feel uncomfortable, you know. Because he said, you know, I I dress like this, but I always feel uncomfortable anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 28:36

Mm-hmm. No, it's that's that's powerful, and that's powerful wisdom because you know you you have to make people feel comfortable. You have to find ways to motivate them, uh, inspire them. Yes right? And so um it's funny because one of our our our our vision statements is to change the world through innovation, inspire businesses to grow. And so, you know, um you're as a team, as a leader, it's our due diligence to lead our team uh to be inspired and motivated because at the end of the day, if we're not inspired and motivated, the the product that what we're producing just doesn't come out right, right? And so you have to you have to make sure that there had there has to be a sense of leadership uh and and human integrity with dealing with other people uh to treat them like humans.

SPEAKER_01: 29:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:25

And so um so then we go into scale. Scale, we're in the final phase. Uh and uh you know, it sounds like you've had a lot of experience, you've sold multiple businesses, uh, but now we're going into uh your you're you said that you're building across multiple teams and asset classes, right? You've done webinars. Uh what does the next three to five years look like as you scale? Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 29:48

So yeah, being in multiple teams, uh for me being at the age I am and having been retired once and thinking I was done, uh at the age I am, I don't have the luxury of someone in their 20s starting in real estate. They can take their time, they can learn the business, and they can spend 20 years building a business and be retired at 45.

SPEAKER_00: 30:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

I mean, and not just retired a little bit. I'm talking five million cash in the bank, liquid, ready to go. These people are retired at 45. I don't have the luxury of 20 years. I want to be retired at 70 so I can enjoy the rest of what I have left. So I'm gonna have to scale quickly. And so what I've done is I've leveraged myself in multiple teams, and each team works in a different asset class. One is multifamily, one is triple net, which is retail storefront, uh, one is self-storage mobile home parks, uh, you know, and and I go across these different teams because if multi-family is moving slowly, someone's working on a really great project in self-storage. Right. And so I jump on that team and we work together. So I'm constantly bouncing back and forth between teams, keeping them motivated because there's always something happening. We've got closings next week on on multifamily, we've got closings after the first of the year in self-storage, you know, and because the teams are continuing to operate whether I'm there or not. So the next three to five years for me personally, what I would like to do is develop a good enough balance sheet so that I can start putting properties into my own name. So in the next three to five years, I would like to add two to three properties every year into my own portfolio so that five years from now I've got 15, maybe 20 properties in my portfolio on year number five. I convert from being a team leader to sitting back at home and selling properties. And if you sell one to two properties a year, by the time I'm 70, I've sold all 20 properties. I've got my three, five, seven million dollars cash in the bank, I'm retired. I I'm done at that point. And people tell me, well, hey, you know, once you get into this business, it doesn't matter how much money you got in the bank, you continue doing it because it's addictive. It is. And uh I can see myself even at 70, 75, continuing to do real estate in a maybe not as as hectic as I'm doing now, but you know, I think I'll probably continue to do it forever.

SPEAKER_00: 32:27

Yeah. That that's funny you say that because I was I was literally about to say that. I said, but you've already retired once, and then you so you know, and I I I've talked to a lot of people uh that you know, when day do you retire, they say you never really truly retire. Right. Um, you know, when you're retired, uh you're really at that moment uh working, but you're working to give back, right? Agreed. And and so I think that uh and to me uh you know that's that's a philosophy I'm going to keep. I'm I'm still young, but when I get there, it's how how do I give back, right? Uh how do I get back to the community? How do I get back to people, right? Um so they can continue growing and prospering even when we're not here, right? And so well, Clifton, thank you for jumping on this podcast. Man, you had such a wonderful story, some great advice, great advice, and I and I know our community is listening out there and and they're thankful uh, you know, that you you know if you're if you've felt like, man, I'm uh I failed and and I'm not doing things right, just keep going, right? And you've got to keep going. Learn from your mistakes, you know, and at the end of the day, uh persevere because if you if you practice perseverance, I promise you you'll you'll you'll be fruitful, right? Without a doubt. And so thanks, Clifton, and then thank you, everybody, once again. Uh my name is Brian Acosta, CEO, co-founder of Avatree Marketing Agency. Thank you for joining us on the Market It Without a podcast. We will see you guys next time.